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Attention wannabe sceptical letter writers! Can you work out what's wrong with this advert from this month's "Kindred Spirit" magazine? (Click to enlarge)
UPDATE, 20th Oct: The ASA Council has adjudicated on the complaint and upheld it in full. Congratulations to everyone who joined in the fun!
UPDATE, 20th Oct: Responding to my complaint, the advertisers undertook to remove an illegal cancer cure claim from their website. Clearly, though, they weren't promising to remove any of the other illegal cancer cure claims from their website. Tut tut!
Don't know yet? Well, here's a tiny little clue.
Vianna Stibal is a repulsive little woman who's made a small fortune in the USA from claiming she can cure cancer.
Practicioners of her Theta Healing technique are normally reluctant to repeat the claim in the UK, but on this occasion, either Hay House Publishers or Stibal herself are guilty of an extremely serious offence under the Cancer Act 1939.
Perhaps Stibal's visit to London later this year will be extended indefinitely. At Her Majesty's Pleasure.
I've put in an ASA complaint (below), and another with Trading Standards, and I hope everyone reading this page immediately does the same. Right now.
(UPDATE, 21 Aug: A number of people have now complained to the ASA, and there is no need for anyone else to do so - it won't make any difference to the final result.
More complaints to Trading Standards are needed - the more they receive, the better the chance they'll take action. You don't have to be a UK citizen to submit a complaint.
You don't need to buy a copy of the magazine, but you do need to say where the advert appeared - "Kindred Spirit magazine - Summer 2010 Issue - page 2". Here's a better-quality scan of the advert, if you need it.
My complaint is rather long. Don't copy me. A few lines complaining that the advert promotes a cure for cancer, in breach of the Cancer Act 1939, is more than enough.)
"I write to complain about an advert appearing in "Kindred Spirit" magazine, Summer 2010 issue, p2.
The advert, for Hay House publishing/Vianna Stibal, promotes a Theta Healing workshop taking place in London, in October.
I suspect that the advert may be in breach of innumerable sections of the British Code of Advertising, Sales Promotion and Direct Marketing (CAP) code. I can provide an original copy of the advert by post, if required.
1. Vianna Stibal - who is leading the workshop promoted in the advertisement - is an American author and healer who "created" the "Theta Healing" method.
2. Under Section 3.1 and 50.1 of the CAP Code, I challenge whether the advertisers can substantiate any of the following claims:
(i) Vianna Stibal - who is leading the workshop promoted in the advertisement - "healed herself of cancer using a technique [Theta Healing] she'd developed as an intuitive reader"
(ii) Vianna Stibal can teach other people how to cure cancer using this method
(iii) Theta Healing is "one of the most powerful healing...techniques in the world"
3. Under Section 2.1, I challenge whether the advert is "legal, decent, honest and truthful".
4. Under Section 2.2, I challenge whether the advert has been "prepared with a sense of responsibility to consumers and to society", and I challenge whether the advert exploits vulnerable consumers.
5. Under Section 4.1, I challenge whether the advertisers have complied with their "responsibility for ensuring that their marketing communications are legal".
6. Under Section 4.1, I challenge whether the advert incites those people attending the workshop to claim they can cure cancer.
7. Under Section 6.1, I challenge whether the advert "exploit the credulity, lack of knowledge or inexperience of consumers".
8. Under Section 7.1, I challenge whether the advert is misleading.
9. In relation to consumers with cancer who might attend the workshop and, because of the advert, believe they can stop their conventional medical treatment, under Section 10.1 I challenge whether the advert condones or encourages unsafe practices.
10. In relation to the claimed cure for cancer, under Section 50.3, I challenge whether the advert discourages essential treatment.
11. Under Section 50.27, I challenge whether the advert claims the Theta Healing therapy can cure illness.
12. I confirm that I have no connections with the advertiser. I confirm that I am not involved in legal proceedings with the advertiser."
I would also like to complain about this and ensure something happens. Claiming to cure cancer is not on.
ReplyDeleteWhere could I get hold of copy of the magazine/advert to "I can provide an original copy of the advert by post, if required"
Dear J,
ReplyDeleteThanks for heeding my call to action!
For ASA complaints, you don't need the original advert. A good-quality scan is enough. I have placed a link to a high-quality scan above.
I say that I can send the original, because I happen to have a copy of the magazine on my desk.
For TS complaints, likewise, you don't need the original. They might not even ask to see a scan.
Done. TS and ASA.
ReplyDeleteJust heard back on my ASA complaint.
ReplyDeleteConcerns on the sections relating to cancer have been passed to "Compliance" and concerns regarding holding evidence for whether "Theta healing is one of the most powerful healing...techniques" has been passed to "Investigations".
No idea if that counts as a successful outcome, but thought I'd let you know.
Yes, that's a good result.
ReplyDeleteWhen complaints get passed to Investigation, the advertisers are usually asked to provide evidence to substantiate their claims. Unless they agree to withdraw the ad and not to repeat it, you'll get an official adjudication in a month or two.
Complaints sent to Compliance are considered to be clearly in breach of the advertising codes to an extent that further investigation isn't necessary.
Nice work, everyon!
Is this the point where I'm supposed to say "with your mamma" ..?
DeleteSame here, the ASA have obviously taken notice. The TS have referred it to my local TS (not Hampstead) and they have even rung me to get the address of the big scan.
ReplyDeleteI've had a similar response from the ASA and Trading Standards, to the one jstreetley reports.
ReplyDeleteAn Anonymous reader writes:
ReplyDelete"One of her students, Kala Shekina of Australia, is coming to Canada [next week]. I'm concerned after reading so much online about Theta Healing...Do you know of a Canadian Regulatory body that we could send complaints to?"
Perhaps "Advertising Standards Canada" - the Canadian equivalent of the UK's ASA - is what you're looking for. Find out more from http://www.adstandards.com/en/index.aspx
i too have made a complaint and have received a passed to complaints dept confirmation. Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteLyndsey from http://donttreadontruth.wordpress.com writes to say:
ReplyDelete"Thank you for the information you posted on my blog... I will be reposting this today. I hope that the UK will handle the serious nature of giving false hope to those in need of help, with absolutely nothing to stand on to support the claims. The worst mistake Vianna Stibal ever made was becoming a "worldwide healer", continuing to use her same...claims around the world. It will be her undoing, as there is definitive proof that Vianna never had cancer... let alone heal it, or anyone elses. Great work exposing this serious matter!"
you said "...Unless they agree to withdraw the ad and not to repeat it, you'll get an official adjudication in a month or two"
ReplyDeleteWhat happens if they do agree to withdraw, is there still an ajudication or any kind of public record that the miscreant has recinded the claim ?
Superb work getting the message out about Vianna Stibal. I followed Lindsey Stock's blog, donttreadontruth to get here. Besides contacting ASA, has anyone contacted Hay House to complain? They need to know about her fraud.
ReplyDeletePete,
ReplyDeleteAdjudications are relatively rare.
When the ASA has ruled against similar claims in the past, an advertiser is simply told not to repeat the advert.
Otherwise, an advertiser is asked for their comments. If they defend the advert, the complaint will go to an adjudication.
It's much more common that an advertiser will agree to withdraw or amend their advert. In that case, only minimal information about the complaint appears on the ASA website under the "resolved complaints" section: http://bit.ly/8ZTHGa
Just in time! I just wrote this:
ReplyDeletehttp://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theta_healing
Didn't realise they were just branching out into the UK.
Wow I am delighted to find this website. I felt that I was alone (in Australia) in speak out about these evil frauds. Everything about "Theta Healing" is a lie, especially the claim that Vianna healed herself, or indeed anyone, of cancer. In fact her own medical records cast doubt on whether she ever had cancer.
ReplyDeleteAnother excellent website is that of Vianna's ex daughter-in-law, who was part of the family during those critical years and witnessed the lies, fraud and deceipt. Her blog is http://www.donttreadontruth.wordpress.com
To David Gerard who made the rationalwiki site, how can we contribute what we know to your wiki?
cheers
Simon
@ David Gerard - damn ! you beat me to it.
ReplyDeleteSimon,
ReplyDeletejust register and create an account here
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&returnto=Main_Page
I am sure that both you and Lynsey have enough information to be able to fill in the blanks of David's somewhat flippant start point (no offence David). Take care however, RationalWiki is about debunking pseudoscience so if you wish to present a rational and unbiased opinion about Theta Healing TM and Mrs Stibal I would lay off any woo and just stick to verifiable claims, background info on the dear leaders etc etc, otherwise you will tend to come off as one of the "not open brigade", and that is counter-productive.Good luck anyway.
Anoyme
You don't even have to create an account, though it's good if you do :-) RationalWiki has an avowedly sceptical viewpoint, and gets snarky - the articles are more like collaborative essays. But documenting stuff well (just the facts with cites) is probably going to be good. People may argue with you on the talk page as well, but that's probably good too.
ReplyDeleteRather than Wikipedia's policy of "notability" (which Theta Healing failed a few times), RationalWiki has the concept of "missionality". So relatively obscure therapy scams like Theta Healing are fine to cover.
Intro to RationalWiki:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki:What_is_a_RationalWiki_article%3F
Check out http://www.thetahealing-unmasked.com/ for more critical information against ThetaHealing and Vianna Stibal.
ReplyDeleteJust so you know, the "Simon" who has posted here is Simon Rose, an Australian former ThetaHealer. He spends much of his time visiting blogs and posting derogatory comments about Theta Healing, not because he disagrees with it, but because he is now competing with it, selling his own brand of psychic energy healing called Reference Point Therapy. You can go to Simon's website, http://www.referencepointtherapy.com/WhatItDoes.asp#RPT-demo, and watch him perform an instant "healing" on a "patient." Simon lifted the Theta Healing curriculum practically verbatim from Vianna and posted it as his own. So don't buy that Simon is a skeptic. He's just using your website for free advertising.
ReplyDeletedo you seriously believe that anybody looking for woo resources would follow a url with the letters S,C,E,P,T,I,C in exactly that order ? I do not see any reference in his comment to his own brand of woo, you kindly did that for him ! Simon (Australia) simply adds his opinion about stibals ability to cure cancer. If you believe in woo thats your right but when you start making the kind of claims that stibal does then you cross a threshold and open yourself to exposure.
ReplyDeleterillenkarren, I never said I believe in it. I don't. But I am familiar with Simon Rose, and I know that he loves to direct people to anything critical of Vianna Stibal because it helps him siphon off her acolytes into his own brand of woo. So yes, I believe that people interested in "alternative medicine" or whatever are likely to find this site, because Simon and his crew of anonymous associates, such as the person above directing readers to Lindsey Stock's blog, will point them here themselves to read the criticisms of Vianna. Once they have read in countless sites all over the internet that "there is definitive proof that Vianna never had cancer," whether they ever see definitive proof or not, Simon will take them in and pick their pockets himself.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that Simon is not interested in rationalism, but in using this forum to tear down his competition. My reason for directing the readers of this blog to Simon's website is so they can see what he is -- I would assume that the readers of this blog, who apparently consider themselves rationalists, would see that the "opinion" of a woo-pitcher like Simon Rose as to the cancer-curing abilities of his competitors is not worth considering seriously, and is certainly not evidence one way or the other. Simon Rose has been making the same claim of an ability to cure cancer for years, first as a Theta Healer and now as the guru of Reference Point Therapy.
@Anon - good then we are both singing off the same hymn sheet ! I too am familiar with Simon's own brand of woo, as well as Trisha Howell and the rest of the Theta-glitterati. Here is another way of looking at it, if Simon's rebukes serve in any way to undermine the Stibal clan and ThetaHealing in general, then I consider that a win, even if he initially profits on the back of it - divide and conquer. Trisha Howell does this already and Stibal has her own retort on her website, as long as they are all at each others throats they will bring about their own demise from within. Clearly both of these parties realised this when they settled out of court recently, I suppose it was to be expected, the only people to benefit from their transparency are sick and vulnerable people. Simon plays his cards well, keeping out of the main fray and picking up passing trade from the fallout, a fool and his money are soon parted, this is a regrettable and unavoidable consequence of exposing this tawdry business. A previous anonymous contributor even suggested that if Simon really wanted to help the cause he "should lay off woo" and stick to facts (despite Theta healing having a virtually zero fact count) Lets throw out the challenge to Simon and ask him to come over to donttreadontruth and spill the beans. If you can show where Simon has claimed to be able to cure cancer let us ALL know, then scepticalletterwriter can issue another call to rally round the flag. Incidently, as we seem to be hijacking SLW's blog we should at least respond to his call for assistance, have you ANON written your letters to the ASA and TSO ? If not why not ? This is an perfect opportunity to derail the thethealing gravy train, they are unlikely to be able to justify their claims and a official adjudication from the ASA is a great tool to assist in dismantling TH. Do it now before its too late.
ReplyDeletePlease don't be concerned about hijacking the blog; write as much as you want.
ReplyDeleteYou may not have noticed that I've edited the original article to say that no more ASA (Advertising Standards) complaints are necessary, but that TS (Trading Standards) complaints are still welcome.
To Anonymous, re: "Once they have read in countless sites all over the internet that "there is definitive proof that Vianna never had cancer," whether they ever see definitive proof or not...
ReplyDeleteThis is a classic response. It's apparently NOT up to Vianna, or any of her plethora of followers who rote repeat her nonsense, to prove that what she claims is in fact truthful! No! Why would it be? It's up to the rest of the world to prove that she's lying. The rest of the free world must show validation for claims (ie Recall the "smoking cigarettes is good for you!" campaign, by paid "doctors")- companies are sued all of the time for false advertising/consumer fraud. But, Vianna from hole in the wall Idaho Falls, Idaho, says, "I had cancer and healed it in an instant! Oh, and did I mention that I instantly GREW BACK six (or more) inches of leg?"... the burden of proof rests upon the skeptics to prove that she's a liar? Uh. Nice try.
15 years after the magical cure, Vianna has never shown any evidence of cancer but has posted, due to ignorance, medical documentation that shows that her biopsy was NOT DIAGNOSTIC for cancer.
Re: Simon. In his defense, he generally does not mention his personal technique in forums about Vianna being a fraud. I don't believe it's fair to assume that his intention on posting here (or elsewhere) is to gain clients... Outside of this blog, however, he, and anyone, should have to prove what they say is true.
Snake oil salesmen are alive and thriving. Only now it's called "New Age Healing".
@SLW I did notice your update but I figured the more the merrier.ASA now confirm my complaint has been passed to compliance and note that they have had several complaints regarding VS. No word back from Trading standards yet, their complaints mechanism seems a little less rigorous with no acknowledgement sent.
ReplyDeleteI was taught theta healing by Vivianna Stibul in Melbourne Australia and I am a little sceptical so I explored her story about curing cancer and I focused on what she did prior to the cancer disappearing and it was DETOX. She tried the Church of Scientology detox program of steam baths, treadmill running and dilating her blood vessels with the pills they gave her.
ReplyDeletewhen the worms were expelled from her body she returned to a state of balance where the natural healing elements of the body took over and the Cancer just went. SURE she does USE some exaggeration to some claims and makes heaps of money for herself BUT getting into THETA does work in some instances.For pain and belief systems yes it works ...for DNA mutations NO definitely not. She is giving some people hope ............she is just a spiritual healer and YES like Louise Hay she practised as a spiritual healer FIRST to gain experience.Some of the machines DOCTORS use today well they GIVE YOU CANCER ! People can make choices for themselves. Vivianna charges TOO MUCH and does not have all the answers. If you really listen to what she says you will realize it is a form of self hypnosis and body detox.
What you must realise is that at this moment in time it is not absolutely certain that she ever had cancer, she shot herself in the foot with her own attempts to scotch these rumours, the evidence presented was indicative of cancer but not diagnostic and when this was pointed out on the web the documentation mysteriously disappeared. Some quick witted person managed to grab these images and they can viewed at donttreadontruth. You seem to think that making exaggerated claims to heal cancer is in someway justified, but had you read this blog fully you would have realised that this is actually (in the UK at least)illegal not to mention unethical. Alternative medicine simply does not stand up to scrutiny it either fails or more often than not refuses to subject itself to such rigours.It is my belief that any effect observed is explained by placebo, you want it to work and if that is the case then you do not need Stibal to enable it.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous: Oh dear.
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with RK, justification like, "Sure she does use some exaggeration to some claims and makes heaps of money for herself BUT..." doesn't quite cut it. I've already beaten the dead horse that Vianna never had cancer, so I'll skip that part and jump into 3 problems.
Problem A) I have personal views on why she did a $cientology cleanse that I won't discuss here, but isn't it altogether possible that there were never any special cleanses at all? If Vianna can justify exaggerating claims (and nonsensical ones), making the leap from one exaggeration to another (cleanses) hardly seems like a stretch.
Problem B) "getting into THETA does work in some instances. For pain and belief systems yes..." Yes, getting into the theta brain wave does work. It's a SLEEP wave. The body heals itself when it sleeps and therefore deals with a certain amount of pain all on its own. The body is absolutely capable of self-healing. Being in an awake state while in a sleep state, sometimes for hours at a time? Seriously?? And belief systems? Please tell me that this is a joke. I'd like an explanation why after 15 years of *working on herself*, Vianna still finds the need to use trumped up claims to sell her product. I have personally witnessed Vianna and other 'top' ThetaHealers do hours worth of Belief Work (aka belief system healing) with no actual improvement of what the original issues were. Shouldn't she be pretty emotionally perfect that this point? ANY therapy has the potential to work if the person facilitating the therapy has either trained or natural ability to help someone work through a problem. A friend (or stranger!) can be just as "healing" as a 12 year professional given the right circumstance of personal revelation, realization or counselling. But the actual 'product' of Belief Work in ThetaHealing has no proven ability to heal.
Problem C) There is literally no way to justify the concepts of teaching that humans can fly, which is what T.Healing also teaches. (Could this be a real parallel with Scientology?) Furthermore, it's simply selfish if T.Healers have the ability to change the weather (once more, as claimed) and **choose** not to stop devastating tsunamis, earthquakes, etc. And what's the justification for choosing not to regrow limbs of amputees and war heroes, or children born without limbs? If T.Healing can regrow parts of the body- shouldn't T.Healers hold personal responsibility to donate some of this needed help, rather than charge upward of $200 an hour for the *gift*?
Conclusion: I have to second RK again here... it's placebo. Sometimes ANYthing will work. Grab a charismatic enough leader and a herd of loyal willing-to-pay groupies, and you've got yourself a potential cult following.
Let's be serious here. There's simply no justification for intentionally fooling the public.
Lindsey, you are the one who said you have "definitive proof" that Vianna had no cancer. So far, all you've posted is a pathology report that said a sample was suggestive but not diagnostic of cancer, which proves nothing either way except that she did have a tumor and it might have been cancer, depending on what is shown by other evidence that does not seem to be in your possession. So you don't have "definitive proof" that Vianna had no cancer, yet you continue to repeat your claim that you do. It seems a bit disingenuous of you to try to avoid responsibility for this deliberate lie by claiming that Vianna should have proven you wrong preemptively.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I don't know whether she had cancer or not. It would not be out of the ordinary if she did. Nor would it be out of the ordinary if it went away in a manner that medical science can't explain; that happens fairly frequently. And if someone chooses to believe that the cause was prayer, or unicorns, or theta waves, that is their business, however, foolish it may seem.
But it bugs me when people lie to prove that the merely foolish are lying.;
Anon, I hope Lindsey is keeping her powder dry until such time as her book is released and perhaps that's why the definitive proof has not yet been revealed. As we are so nicely chatting here about what we know to be true or not, I would like to know upon what basis you claim that cancer clears itself fairly frequently ?
ReplyDeleteAnyway you seem to be missing the point of this thread somewhat, Stibal's advertising blurb claims to have treated herself AND can show you how to do it too. If she really could cure cancer she would be nominated for a Nobel prize unfortunately to date the only nomination she has had is for the "Scammy awards"
rillenkarren,
ReplyDeleteTalk to any oncologist and he can tell you of patients who, suddenly and without explanation, have gone into remission. By "frequently" I did not mean to suggest that there is a percent chance of miraculous remission that any patient should rely on, but in the aggregate, yes, it happens regularly enough that just about every doctor has seen it.
And the lucky patients that experience it are likely to credit whatever it is they happened to be doing at the time, whether it was theta waves or prayer or chinese herbs.
As far as Lindsey keeping her powder dry, I've read her blog and her other websites, and she never even hints that she has any evidence, other than the one inconclusive medical record, to support her claim that Vianna Stibal did NOT have cancer. So, if you're a sceptic, be a sceptic. Be a sceptic about claims to possess miraculous powers, and about claims to possess incriminating evidence.
To all of the Anonymous's,
ReplyDeleteKnowing what I know and what I have published in my book for others to know aside, I find it humorous that the only documentation declaring that Vianna ever had cancer- one that says that she did NOT have it- was promptly removed from YouTube once attention was brought to it. Yet this is not questioned.
Why?
Because normal people can't tolerate the fact that there are people who could lie about so great a concept as HEALING CANCER. Surely no one would be that sick. Right?
Wrong.
Vianna did not have cancer, and to suggest that I don't even "hint" that I have other evidence is clearly laughable.
Can you wonder why I have not been sued for defamation in this regard? Believe me, they are sue-happy. Why not sue me? Because she knows that the best defense against defamation is truth. The evidence would be brought out that what I have said is correct... and that would be a little rough on the cancer-healing business.
A teaser: Vianna has sealed the lawsuit that settled recently. Why? What would have been available to the public that she didn't want the public to see? Well guess what. "We" beat her to it. I've got what she had sealed- and it's pretty clear what she was concerned about being revealed.
I'm not in this for self-aggrandizement as she, and other ThetaHealers, are. I am in this to protect further people from being scammed. My life is no better or worse for what I am saying- for you, or anyone, to believe me only helps you. The public information from that lawsuit will be brought to the attention of media, which will hopefully then find its way to law enforcement, very shortly.
Having all of the information back-to-back in my book is simply an easy way to digest the what, why and how in this mess of fraud.
That's all I can say, in the interest of keeping my powder dry and doing this the Right Way.
Thank you again SLW.
Anon, I agree with you wholeheartedly, any oncologist has probably seen spontaneous remission. The problem I have with Stibal is that she is promoting her industrial strength charlatinism on the back of her dubious claims. Do you not think it is a little suspect though that her "proof" was quickly withdrawn when the flaws in her argument were highlighted ? Why do you think that not a single person who claims to be have been healed of cancer through theta healing or any other "alternative" healing "modality" has been able to or willing to actually document it ? Could it be that it does not actually work ? I hope, for the sake of those people who could in desperation be sucked into this form of pseudoscience, that Lindsey will eventually reveal her hand and demonstrate stibals con. Well Lyndsey, where is that book ?!
ReplyDeleteps what are the other websites you refer to ?
People like you will never be cured with your belief. Just support pharmaceutical companies and live on drugs. You must have a miserable life!
ReplyDeletehi guys, it's Simon Rose. I haven't visited this thread for months but just saw the lovely discussion about my motives.
ReplyDeleteNotice how the people attacking me had nothing positive to say about Theta Healing. When there's nothing good to say - shoot the messenger! :-)
I don't need to defend myself. However I do feel a desire to defend the ability of people, like myself, to expose a scam within their own industry.
Some seem to be suggesting that because I am in the personal development industry, that I am not allowed to expose a scam or fraud in my own industry, because that would be competition.
What rot!
I am in a divided industry, there are good honest people, some with remarkable talents, and then there are really psychiatrically deranged individuals who lie and claim to heal cancer etc.
I admit that I would probably profit if Theta Healing imploded. Does that mean that people like me, who know the industry intimately, should not be permitted to comment?
There's a fine line and that's why I try to keep the roles separate. I posted some helpful videos on YouTube explaining why Theta doesn't work and exposing the methods. I could have added "here's why what I do is completely different" but I decided not to link to my website or even say my name. That was my way of showing that I wear 2 different hats.
I am happy to contribute to the rational wiki about Theta Healing and I'm quite happy for there to be one about me too. The difference between scientific method and quackery is that only one stands up to scrutiny and debate.
regards
Simon Rose
unashamedly a co-founder of Reference Point Therapy (non-woo woo) and one of the many people blowing the whistle about the fraud that is Theta Healing
Dude... What you think about most is what you attract!
ReplyDeleteIndians, Please watch out!
ReplyDeleteNow she is out to cheat the gullible Indians with her magic cure at a cost of Rupees Fifty Thousand per course! Already advertisements had appeared i THE HINDU newspaper about the forthcoming course to be held from FEB 4 - 11. 2011.
The big problem is that theta-healing and all others "subtile" therapy CANNOT be proved by rational structures, so who is trapped into logical thinking CANNOT see anything valuable in this.
ReplyDeleteSo they say lies lies lies.
For me it works. It's simple as the sun is out there. Belief or not, it is like it is.
Regards.
Ed
Vianna Stibal teaches what she has discovered and developed with absolute integrity. She makes it clear that when using the Theta techniques, God does the healing, the healer is the facilitator & witness. There are many, many things in this complex world that do not comply with conventional 'logic' - quantum physics being one of them. The ability of bees to fly being another. These things simply challenge us to explore different frames of reference so that we can understand the sense-making logic behind situations and realities that previously appeared incomprehensible. Energy healing is something that 5 years ago I would have robustly challenged. I lived in a high earning, very logic-driven professional world. However, a very serious accident followed by a cancer diagnosis led me towards other paradigms. But only after conventional cancer treatment had failed. Two & a half years ago I was given "weeks, maybe months" to live. I tried a broad range of therapies & approaches. These included energy healing, of which Theta Healing was one. I didn't feel desperate, everything I did was done with discernment and research. I met Vianna in the course of this process. She is a powerfully intuitive healer. She told me things about the illness's manifestation that I knew were true from scans, but that I hadn't told her. She referenced elements of my past & timings, that were accurate & she worked on releasing unhelpful beliefs. The work she did - for which she refused all offers of payment - led to incredible healings both medically and in my personal life. While everything that I used and worked with made a contribution, it is Vianna that I credit with giving me my life back.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your story.
I think I can explain all the things that have happened to you - they are called "spontaneous remission", "confirmation bias" and "cold reading".
Even if Vianna's magical fingers are an instrument of God, it's still a crime in the UK to make these kinds of claims, and Vianna is still a common criminal.
(By the way, did you know that "Bees shouldn't be able to fly!" is just another one of those pesky urban myths?)
Hello Skeptical Letter Writer, I understand your narrow view - I used to share a similar one. However, your explanations don't begin to cover the breadth of my experiences with energy healing, Theta Healing in particular and Vianna. BTW the bee flying thing may be an urban myth - it doesn't matter - there's no end of complexity in this fabulous world that requires us to re-frame our perceptions (which was the point). To address your 'explanations' - firstly it wasn't 'spontaneous remission' rather a major turning point that led to remission, secondly, I am very aware of cold reading. You cannot cold read something as specific as cellular changes in lung tissue - which I had been advised of from a then recent scan but had not mentioned; but which Vianna picked up and said she'd 'got rid of' ... and had disappeared when the next scan was done.
ReplyDeleteNone of your answers address the fact that having trained in these methods (to understand them and to work on myself) - I have used them to help others. They work. One young man I worked with achieved flexing and movement in an arm & hand that had been paralysed from birth. You can dismiss these many instances as all being 'spontaneous remission' but if they keep happening when a healer is at work then doesn't your natural curiosity seek an understanding of that? Any healing is a co-creation. I came to this because my life was under threat and conventional medicine hadn't worked. My view of how things work - as people & how the world works in relation to our spiritual dimensions, has expanded exponentially since the accident. To insist on seeing the rich multi-dimensional multi-layered beings that we are ONLY through the constraints of a western medicine, science based, 'logic' trammelled paradigm is SO impoverished a view.
Vianna's claims are all truthful - she says what happened to her & she offers to teach the techniques to open those possibilities for others. She offers opportunities. No one guarantees that energy healing will work every time. No one guarantees that western medicine will work every time. We don't necessarily understand why either approach does or doesn't work in a particular situation. Theta healing offers an effective way of ridding a person of underlying beliefs that may be blocking their ability to heal themselves. If you want the science that underpins why beliefs impact the physical status of the body then read 'Molecules of Emotion' by Candace Pert PhD.
Thank you for responding to my story.
By the way 'Anonymous - Ed' ... I like your comment & that's how it is for me too now'.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteSo, you say that Theta Healing can reverse cancer and cure paralysis. I say that Theta Healing is a quack therapy promoted by the delusional. Shall we find out which one of is right?
JREF offer a million dollar prize for anyone who can demonstrate, under controlled conditions, claims such as yours. Click on the link below to download the entrance form.
You don't say in which part of the world you live, but JREF have conducted tests all around the world, so you don't have to be an American.
Do let me know how you get on.
http://www.randi.org/research/Challenge_Application.pdf
I'll look into it. You know, don't you, that western double blind medical experiments don't produce 100% results? That conventional cancer treatments often leave their patients more susceptible to further cancers? That the consultants who use them to treat patients, know they are a sledgehammer to crack a nut (unquote) but because no-one understands all the complex mechanisms for why and how they do or don't have an effect, they offer them in the absence of full understanding. A lot of Western cancer treatment is 'suck it and see' with a white coat on. It's a pity that any organisation with a $M lyingaround doesn't pressure big Pharma to do more to work integratively withother healing modalities rather than the current stand-off & cost raisingprotectionism, so that patients are left to random exploration.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy to have a look at the hoops you place so much faith in, since you've offered the view. How presumptuous of science to want miracles to order!!! Do you think the guy with the paralysed arm cared whether the work was repeatable? In real terms it isn't! Because each person is different, the preps that lead to a particular outcome (eg releasing paralysis) will be different.
I'm grateful to see the real results of Theta and other energy healing modalities every day. As I said, I'll happily take a look at the site you reference, but in answer to your 'Let's see who's right' challenge - I see what I believe being manifested every day in healings done for friends, family & clients.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFrom your description, Theta Healing sounds like a hit-and-miss affair.
When one of your "friends, family & clients" reports an improvement, how can you be so sure that Theta Healing is responsible?
What process do you go through to rule out any of the other possible causes?
When you take a pill with a glass of water for a headache, how do you know whether it was the pill or the glass of water that made the difference? if the headache was due to dehydration the pill probably made no difference. What processes do YOU go through to rule out any other possible causes? Perhaps your headache went into spontaneous remission at that point?
ReplyDeleteYou think you're being scientific but you're not!
It's quite simple, if someone comes to me with a pain and the work I do with them means it ends then I attribute the improvement to the healing. If they have a situation - medical, emotional, spiritual etc that they've come for help with & some benefit emerges over the next few days, for example, if they feel it is rue healing that has brought them the benefit then I thank them for the opportunity of working with them. When you experience energy healing you will know in yourself whether you feel an improvement. You may have to wait for tests to confirm them from a conventional point of view. Also, sometimes healings occur of matters you were not focused on in the session.
When I was working on myself (I still am but not for the same things) I knew that by trying numerous approaches in parallel I wouldn't necessarily know which one (this was before the stage where I went to Vianna) had made any breakthrough - and you know what? I DIDN'T GIVE A STUFF!!! I was only interested in being better! I trusted my intuition and discernment as to what to continue with. It wasn't a scientific experiment, it was my life. So long as the things I did kept me feeling healthy and well, I kept on with them. My highly developed sensitivities to my own responses told me that it was Vianna's intervention that made the difference at the time I went to her.
When I treat others, an improvement may be immediately obvious (as in the paralysis case - because it happened while I was working on him and he'd neither sought nor had any other treatment at that point), or I leave it to the judgement of the client where to attribute emerging benefits.
I don't need to prove anything. People who seek an energy healing usually have a belief system in place that's open to the possibility that a healing can happen. Sometimes it's beliefs that need to be worked on to enable a healing. It's up to the client what they ask for help with.
Anyway, I don't do it to meet some science based proof paradigm, I do it to bring improvement & benefit to the person asking for help.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI'm confused.
One moment you say that Theta Healing can cure cancer and paralysis.
The next moment you say that "I knew that by trying numerous approaches in parallel I wouldn't necessarily know which one had made any breakthrough".
Again - how do you know that it is Theta Healing, and not a combination of other factors, that is producing the results you've seen?
Sorry to hear of your confusion. I've explained above that I'd tried a number of things in parallel before the period in which I went to Vianna. The things I was doing kept me alive and feeling healthy, however the cancer was still present. The phrase you may have missed, above, is "My highly developed sensitivities to my own responses told me that it was Vianna's intervention that made the difference at the time I went to her" - that was when the cancer started to reduce on the scans I was having. My consultants referred to it as 'miraculous'.
ReplyDeleteI know that it was Vianna's intervention because that was the 'new' action at that time. I have met numerous people through energy healing (not just Theta) who have healed cancer. The key is in understanding your body in a different way. Blockages and imbalances in your consciousness / energy system will manifest as illness if they are bad enough & undealt with. When you work with energy healing and tackle unhelpful belief systems then you change the patterns of energy at cellular level that enable your body to heal itself (which it is designed to be able to do). When you use Theta you're asking Creator to make those changes. Other modalities use Universal energy. It all comes from the same place.
Now, I've outlined the basis of my beliefs - 'proved' from a basis of experience which obliged me to re-think my previous scepticism. Your asserted belief is that Theta Healing is quackery promoted by the delusional. What research have you done to support that? Where is your 'proof' that it doesn't work? Or are you just operating from baseless prejudice?
ReplyDeletePerhaps you need to become less reliant on flawed concepts of 'scientific proof' as when you look a little more closely you'll see that they're not necessarily helpful in all things. BTW a friend of mine had kidney cancer & lost the kidney. He's a scientist so he doesn't entertain any of my beliefs in this connection. There's no current preventative treatment for kidney cancer, you just hope for the best it won't come back, in the conventional scenario. He immediately went on a drug trial for a potential preventative therapy. He knows he's on the actual drug & not a placebo because of his body's reactions. So, he's effectively been on chemotherapy for 3 years, taking the drug for this trial. It ends soon and so far there's no sign of a cancer return. But he will never know whether that would have been the case had he not done anything. There are many things for which there are no absolute proofs, only probabilities. That applies as much in science as it does outside it. Science is only one paradigm!
I don't believe you have the right to slander someone like Vianna who does an incredible amount of healing and good, just because of your own narrow prejudices and paucity of understanding. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I've been where you are and I wouldn't want to go back.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDelete"Where is your 'proof' that [Theta Healing] doesn't work? Or are you just operating from baseless prejudice?"
I'm glad you have a scientist friend. The next time you speak to him, ask him to explain the "burden of proof" concept to you.
Stibal is a criminal. Sorry if that sounds harsh, old bean.
How funny you are!!! And not very focused. You're discussing legal issues and yet you'd like a scientist to explain burden of proof to me. Which do you want - the legal definition of burden of proof, or the scientific one? I've met the scientific one by showing evidence. In legal terms, because of the presumption of innocence, if you think Vianna is acting in a criminal manner, the burden of proof falls on you.
ReplyDeleteSince you have found it necessary to stoop to being patronising, it's very clear to all that you know you've lost your argument - and on that point only - I concur with you!
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteQuite right - let me clarify.
I say that Vianna Stibal is a criminal because of her offences under the Cancer Act 1939. As you say, the burden of proof falls upon me, and I have detailed my allegations above.
You wrote:
"Where is your 'proof' that [Theta Healing] doesn't work? Or are you just operating from baseless prejudice?"
Here, the burden of proof falls upon you (and other Theta Healers). You make the claims that Theta Healing has miraculous effects; it is up to you to produce the evidence.
I understood that you were asking me to provide some kind of "negative" proof. The scientific method does not equip us with the tools to do that; I suggested that you speak to your friend so that he might convince you of the fact.
All clear now?
Nothing you have said changes the fact that you have lost your argument.
ReplyDeleteThere is plenty of evidence that Theta Healing works - not just my experience.
Your allegations are fanciful nonsense based on mistaken and illogical extrapolations. The flyer was advertising an event on 'Manifesting & Abundance'. It states that Vianna healed herself of cancer. She did. It says that she can teach others Theta Healing. She can. She makes no claim that Theta Healing can release cancer - although it's my belief it can. She gives no advice to anyone generically about cancer & specifically recommends that people do not desist from any medical treatment they may be receiving.
Your extrapolations and allegations are laughable.
You would benefit from reading 'Anything can be healed' by Martin Brofman. He developed 'Body Mirror System' after healing himself of terminal cancer 35 years ago. He also teaches his method, which uses Universal energy and is a powerful healing modality.
If you think quoting The Cancer Act (which appears to have been mostly repealed or superceded) has any merit, think again. You'll find that most of the major cancer charities give advice about cancer.
As I said - you've lost your argument ... none of it has any merit.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou assert that the argument has been lost - you say that "There is plenty of evidence that Theta Healing works" - but you still have not provided this evidence.
Once again - where is your evidence?
I've given you evidence from my experience. You seem very hung up on something that is not that strong in orthodox western medicine, particularly in relation to cancer. Medical science can explain HOW its treatments work, but not in every case. They cannot explain WHY a treatment will work for some people and not others.
ReplyDeleteIn my own case the consultants couldn't explain why I'd relapsed after a treatment that's expected to be successful for 80% of its recipients. I was offered something that has a 30 - 50% chance of being successful (stem cell transplant). All the latest and best research findings that I read - from the cream of what science in the field can offer - stated that they had no basis for understanding why or if it would work. I studied the gene expression that had been analysed in the research - genetic markers that seemed to indicate the prospect of a good outcome & those that appeared linked to a poor outcome. I compared it with the gene expression from a biopsy that had been done on me. Both sides were represented. Science couldn't give me ANY evidence to support choosing that treatment and yet I was being asked to take the gamble of decimating my immune system with chemotherapy in order to use the 'clean' stem cells to 're-start it. The risk/reward balance did not seem favourable.
Science had no useful evidence to offer, remember.
Now consider the benefits of energy healing - I have remained blisteringly healthy and active throughout. I have continued to Be able to work and earn a decent income (before I ceased doing management consultancy) so my family have not suffered financially.
Energy healing has given me a better outcome than science based medicine o
was offering.
Has it occurred to you that your strident but ill-informed views could dissuade someone from seeking alternative treatment that could improve their health and/or save their life? Do you really feel qualified to bear that responsibility?
I know that it was Theta Healing that turned the corner for me and resulted in the cancer actually starting to reduce in size. Other modalities are also effective. It depends on what works for you as an individual. (Actually, that's the same for western medicine - it's just big pharma's propaganda that pretends all treatments work for all people). I heard the other day from a friend who 4 years ago was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. The tumour was pressing on her optic nerve & she'd lost the sight in one eye. She used Body Mirror System to heal it. Her sight returned and the most recent scan showed that what had been cancer has died and shrunk to just a tiny piece of scar tissue in her brain.
Western medicine had nothing to offer her & yet now she has her life back.
Are you really so confident in trashing something you simply don't yet understand?
That doesn't sound like the approach to be expected from someone laying claim to being intelligent, now does it?
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThe 'evidence' you've offered so far consists of nothing more than a series of anecdotes.
Do you understand why anecdotal evidence is considered to be so weak as to be worthless? If not, I'll happily explain it for you.
How tediously patronising you are! Is that what you resort to when you're out of your depth with things you don't yet understand? The science that you cling to can't yet satisfactorily explain reality. Brilliant and fascinating as scientific paradigms are, the 300 odd years of Western science's existence, compared with the billions of years of earth's existence, renders it about as able to explain everything as a week old baby explaining its conception. Pinning all your rationale to science's narrow 'rules' is immensely limiting. Still, you seem happy in your ignorance, so ... enjoy!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteSo, we are basically in agreement that there isn't a jot of evidence to say Theta Healing works?
Well, I sure am glad we got that one sorted out! (Sorry to have been so tedious and patronising. You know, there's a reason why I have a lot of free evenings and weekends for writing these letters...
Clearly - as you don't find any evidence acceptable - your perception is that there is no evidence. But that's only your individual perception and NOT factual reality. I'm sure you're being ironic when you assert we are in agreement because otherwise I can only conclude that your grasp of reality is slipping.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to share your reasons for writing then please do. Mine are simply that you are ignorantly maligning someone who I consider healed me from a life-threatening disease.
Hello Anon,
ReplyDeletecan you elaborate on your claim that "Theta healing offers an effective way of ridding a person of underlying beliefs that may be blocking their ability to heal themselves" ? What for instance were your underlying beliefs ?
I understand that Theta healing claims to work by harnessing the power of Theta brainwaves which are real and can be demonstrated, why then is it also necessary to believe in a god, why can't atheists take advantage of it ?
If I was able to put myself into a theta brainwave state in seconds, as I understand is the case with theta healers, I would be chomping at the bit to demonstrate to the likes of skeptical letter writer my abilities, yet no-one from the theta world seems to be willing or able to do this. Why do you think proponents of alternative medicine are reluctant to submit themselves to this type of scrutiny ?
Thanks - these are interesting questions and I'll do my best to answer them. In terms of beliefs, the ones we are interested in as healers tend to be hidden. For example, (taking just one strand from an overall, much more complex, session) in working with someone who wanted help with a situation where they sabotaged themselves every time they achieved something good in their life, it transpired that their mother had opined, at a young age, that the person "would never amount to anything". So the belief that needed to be released was 'everything my Mother said is true'. As an adult, the person knew logically & objectively that that wasn't true BUT when we used muscle testing to test for what the subconscious believed, the person tested positive. The thing is that at the age those words were said, the child believed that everything their mother said was true. Theta was used to remove the belief and replace it with another more positive and supportive one. Muscle testing showed the belief had been changed.
ReplyDeleteYou ask why it is necessary to believe in God, as part of your question about putting oneself into a Theta brainwave state. The reason is that Theta Healing isn't just about the brainwave state, it's what you do while you're in it that matters. Theta healers believe that while in a Theta brainwave state, it is possible to communicate with Creator / All that is / God (choose your preferred name). Creator is asked to do the healing and the healer witnesses it. Consequently, if someone is an atheist and doesn't believe in the existence of God, it would be hard for them to be open to being healed by God.
You asked why, in your view, alternative healers don't rush to demonstrate their skills? That's not my view - YouTube has lots of clips & testimonials. I can see a real practical issue with trying to film a genuine session - neither healer nor healee knows what will be revealed in a session - the more serious the ailment (if the problem is medical) the more complex, deep and personal the underlying issues are likely to be - healees need to be able to be comfortable that their confidentiality is assured. Also, while we always aim for an instant healing, sometimes a number of sessions are required as the client's beliefs and ideas shift, through the healing process.
You asked about my beliefs. I needed to tackle a number of things that I hadn't wanted even to admit to myself - for example, questioning whether I deserved to be loved unconditionally (of course I do, we all do, it's just I didn't believe it at one point) and that was only one facet in a very complex interplay of factors.
I hope all this helps address your questions.
theta brainwave - why believe God
why alt healer
I responded to the above post but it seems to have disappeared!
ReplyDeleteI took a copy of what I'd posted, so I'm posting it again in the hope it stays this time!
ReplyDeleteThanks - these are interesting questions and I'll do my best to answer them. In terms of beliefs, the ones we are interested in as healers tend to be hidden. For example, (taking just one strand from an overall, much more complex, session) in working with someone who wanted help with a situation where they sabotaged themselves every time they achieved something good in their life, it transpired that their mother had opined, at a young age, that the person "would never amount to anything". So the belief that needed to be released was 'everything my Mother said is true'. As an adult, the person knew logically & objectively that that wasn't true BUT when we used muscle testing to test for what the subconscious believed, the person tested positive. The thing is that at the age those words were said, the child believed that everything their mother said was true. Theta was used to remove the belief and replace it with another more positive and supportive one. Muscle testing showed the belief had been changed.
You ask why it is necessary to believe in God, as part of your question about putting oneself into a Theta brainwave state. The reason is that Theta Healing isn't just about the brainwave state, it's what you do while you're in it that matters. Theta healers believe that while in a Theta brainwave state, it is possible to communicate with Creator / All that is / God (choose your preferred name). Creator is asked to do the healing and the healer witnesses it. Consequently, if someone is an atheist and doesn't believe in the existence of God, it would be hard for them to be open to being healed by God.
You asked why, in your view, alternative healers don't rush to demonstrate their skills? That's not my view - YouTube has lots of clips & testimonials. I can see a real practical issue with trying to film a genuine session - neither healer nor healee knows what will be revealed in a session - the more serious the ailment (if the problem is medical) the more complex, deep and personal the underlying issues are likely to be - healees need to be able to be comfortable that their confidentiality is assured. Also, while we always aim for an instant healing, sometimes a number of sessions are required as the client's beliefs and ideas shift, through the healing process.
You asked about my beliefs. I needed to tackle a number of things that I hadn't wanted even to admit to myself - for example, questioning whether I deserved to be loved unconditionally (of course I do, we all do, it's just I didn't believe it at one point) and that was only one facet in a very complex interplay of factors.
I hope all this helps address your questions.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteA few posts back, you wrote,
"Mine are simply that you are ignorantly maligning someone who I consider healed me from a life-threatening disease."
For the fifth time - please provide evidence that Theta Healing was responsible for healing your life-threatening disease.
Look, what works for me as evidence, obviously doesn't work for you - but that is simply opinion on both sides. I have already spelt out my evidence several times. It is:
ReplyDelete1. Before the healing work with Vianna, what I was doing was prolonging my life and good health but the cancer was still evidenced on scans
2. After the healing work, the cancer was evidenced to be reducing on scans
3. There had been no change in what I was doing, except for the Theta healing.
And that, my friend, is good enough for me. I didn't set this up as a scientific experiment. Science cannot explain the results that emerge from so-called scientific experiments. I did, earlier in the piece, sign up to take part in a drug trial for a new monoclonal antibody treatment. I suffered a massive allergic reaction to the first attempt to administer it. The scientists in charge could not explain either why I had reacted or what to. They said it could have been the drug itself, or, it could have been the medium it was suspended in. Any study of scientific advances will tell you that a significant number of advances have been made serendipitously in the search for something else. Western science is only as narrow as it is because Descartes made a pact with the Church at the time that if he was allowed to use bodies for experiments he would not involve himself with matters of spirit or soul.
Your questions were interesting which is the only reason I've bothered to respond. Your most recent post shows that your 'needle is stuck in the groove' of determinedly narrow thinking. My consultants (medical specialists and de facto scientists) are more open to these ideas than you are.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou've provided evidence that your cancer cleared up - I'll take you at your word, when you say the scans confirm it - what I am still waiting for, is evidence that Theta Healing was responsible.
Do you have any such evidence?
Ha ha ha! You are funny!
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly would count as evidence for you then?
My hospital consultants (who can better claim to be scientists than you, I suspect) are satisfied with my evidence.
What makes you so special that you want more?
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question. In medical research there are different forms of evidence, some more reliable than others.
Near the top of the scale are randomised controlled clinical trials. Even better than that is a formal review - an analysis of many trials, taking into account any design flaws they may have had.
At the bottom of the heap is anything that we can call anecdotal evidence, which long and painful experience has shown us is virtually worthless.
Anonymous, all you have supplied so far is a series of anecdotes. Worse still, it's not even published material - just a series of claims from an anonymous source. I wonder why you think that anyone is going to take them seriously?
You silly man! Clinging to something that has a 300 year history trying to explain the complexities of human existence and experience lasting 160,000 years. Why would you expect anyone to take YOU seriously?! And - btw - "take account of any design flaws" - DESIGN FLAWS?!!! In a glorious science experiment? SURELY NOT SIR!!! Hahahahaha!!! As I said - silly!
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIf the scientific method is capable of shedding light on conditions a million, ten million, a hundred million, a billion or ten billion years ago, why do you suppose it is suddenly rendered impotent at the 160,000 year mark?
You misunderstand my point. But, I'm sure if you re-read the post you'll get it second time around.
ReplyDeleteBTW You're wrong in attributing the shedding of light on conditions x billions of years ago, to the use of 'scientific method'. In most cases it is simply somebody's hypothesis that may stand until someone else comes up with a new hypothesis. There are plenty of conflicting views among scientists and no opportunity in many cases for double blind experiments etc.
The reality of quantum physics and mechanics is turning existing scientific assumptions on their head.
As I said earlier - you're pinning your colours to something that is, in large part, 'suck it and see' with a white coat on.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteClearly I didn't comprehend this last post either. Can you shed some light on it for me?
(1) Please explain how knowledge of conditions in the universe billions of years ago came to our attention, if not by the application of the scientific method
(2) Please explain how current mathematical descriptions of subatomic wave-particle interactions invalidate clinical research
(3) Please provide evidence of instances in which the results of clinical research have been rendered invalid by current mathematical descriptions of subatomic wave-particle interactions
You're a time-waster!
ReplyDeleteI've said all I want to say. It's entirely up to you whether you accept or reject the points I've made. Clearly from your responses you find it hard to accept anything outside of a narrow scientific paradigm, and worse, you seem intellectually incapable of challenging the weaknesses of that paradigm.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease describe how I am to decide which of your claims to accept, and which to reject, when you consistently fail to provide any evidence with which I might arrive at a conclusion.
Hey - do yourself a favour! Here's Bruce Lipton. He's a biochemist who was involved in the earliest stem cell cloning experiments. Ignore the presentational dressing, just watch the video itself. Here is a scientist explaining the answers to some of the questions you posed above.
ReplyDeletehttp://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=KfB2y&m=1aCBJO5f9PDX4n&b=rlueqEQWgIvhTI32BAoeyw
Sorry, correction, he's a Cellular Biologist.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePromotional videos on YouTube do not constitute evidence. Bruce Lipton's advertising campaigns do not constitute evidence. If he has published an article in a mainstream scientific journal that you thinks answers my questions, though, I'll happily read it.
Please describe how I am to decide which of your claims to accept, and which to reject, when you consistently fail to provide any evidence with which I might arrive at a conclusion.
Dear oh dear! I wonder how you manage to get yourself dressed in the morning! All those decisions requiring judgement & discernment! However do you cope?Bruce Lipton is an ex Professor who taught medicine at Wisconsin Medical School and Stanford. He is multiply published and honoured.
ReplyDeleteYou on the other hand are the equivalent of a flat-earther.
Cheerio!
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteCan you tell me where I can read Bruce Lipton's published* work on the following topics?
(1) How knowledge of conditions in the universe billions of years ago came to our attention, if not by the application of the scientific method
(2) How current mathematical descriptions of subatomic wave-particle interactions invalidate clinical research
(3) Evidence of instances in which the results of clinical research have been rendered invalid by current mathematical descriptions of subatomic wave-particle interactions
(*By 'published', I'm talking about peer-reviewed scientific journals. Not YouTube.)
I send you love and blessings. Good Luck with your research - I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, Cheerio.
I see Stabal was being exposed on News Night last night.
ReplyDeleteFantastic! Firstly, congratulations on your tenacity Mr. Writer. Perhaps you should have asked 'Why anonymous?' - if whoever it is could have said 'I'm Joe Bloggs' and actually owned up to who they were, it might have had more credibility, but it's so often the case that all this stuff comes from anons. And the stuff that's 'published' - someone creates a website called 'University/Academy of blah blah', puts an article on it, and says 'look at that for proof'. Keep up the good work. BTW, I recently posted a link to the BBC Newsnight on Ms Stibals Theta Healing Facebook page - it's still there, so maybe she's not seen it or is just ignoring it.
ReplyDeleteI see some of you have been taken in by Newsnight's attempt to ape the News Of The World's style of reporting. Their researcher had contacted me to ask for an interview. When she discovered that I had healed 'terminal' cancer using Theta Healing (& other energy healing modalities) she rapidly lost interest. They had already decided the story they wanted to run and it had zero to do with any kind of truth or serious investigative journalism. Which probably accounts for Newsnight's recent losses in terms of viewing figures.
ReplyDeleteVianna hasn't bothered to do anything about the programme or links to it because it has resulted in a massive hike in sales of her books and courses. She has no problem with people who wish to express a view that doesn't agree with hers.
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your insight!
Are you trying to argue that the BBC's current affairs programmes should not investigate and expose crimes? This seems like a strange argument to be making, but first let me be sure I'm not putting words into your mouth.
Supplementary question: do you think that Licence fee payers would support a BBC decision to stop investigative reporting on criminal activity? I don't have a TV myself, so it's not my place to express an opinion. (I hear that some of those consumer rights shows get very high ratings, though.)
Vivianna Stibul underwent intensive body cleansing and dieting and THIS ALONE healed her Cancer. She has had 4 husbands. One of them was a hypnotist so she studied HIS BOOKS and accidently came up with this THEATA HEALING TECHNIQUE. She then told the public it was THETA healing that CURED her Cancer and the money rolled in for her. She is A spiritualist trying to alter ones disease using the SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. ..like a placebo effect. These TWO internal cleansing and self hypnosis were going on at same time. SO you are smart and work it out for yoursel OR you jump to conclusion that theta healing cures cancer. SHE INVITES YOU TO BELIEVE and you fall into her trap. YES she preys on the vulnerable. Yes she dappled in SPIRITUALITY TRAINING with a local Church and visualization techniquea. Yes she is a FRAUD BUT at least she gave sufferers HOPE. Better than nothing I say !!!
ReplyDeleteVivianna Stibul underwent an intensive detox programme with the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY. This with frequent saunas and vitamin intake and prayer healed her Cancer. She is a healer like Barbara Anne Brennan -"Hands of Light". She claims she can SEE inside your body, identify the pathogen and your disease She is right brain hemisphere enhanced and was working as a Naturopath before she got her Cancer. She is a fraud because she KNOWS she cannot cure Cancer but takes huge fees from vulnerable people who flock to be cured. She has become unbelievably brazen in her outrageous claims and needs to be curbed . A weekend session with her will cost you over $800 ...training in LEVELS in THETA Healing will cost you thousands. From experience I think you need to keep away from her as you will be led on to greater debt with minimal results to your overall state of health. She uses this MIND/SPIRIT/SOUL knowledge to great personal and financial success. She is very dangerous as patients become VERY excited and make changes to their lives..not always for the better.
ReplyDelete